Comments on: Does God Hear Prayer?

By: Gigi

Gigi — Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:00:00 +0000

Reply to Jimmie 2 days ago

Very well said!

By: Jimmie

Jimmie — Thu, 18 Nov 2010 05:15:00 +0000

You are to be congratulated on your presentation of a decidedly CHRISTIAN interpretation of the Book called by JEWISH people, “Bereishit”. In the Christian bible it is called “Genesis”. Now, if we are to truly make any progress in understanding each other, it seems only reasonable to start with the fact that the Christian and Jewish INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible are not the same. So when you use terms like “corrupted”, “material”, “flesh”, “lord”, “spiritual”, “law”, “Torah”, “Moses”, “faith”, “humility”, and “sin”; recognition of these differences is critical.

The basic theme that runs throughout your statement is quite old going back to the first century, over 2000 years ago! More specifically, it is the teaching of ONE of the many BRANCHES of CHRISTIANITY that developed after the original community became fragmented. I am of course referring to GNOSTIC CHRISTIANITY. The teaching of this branch was DUALISTIC with a “higher” spirituality that, it was thought, transcended the written TORAH–including all of it’s commandments that apply to the physical world and existence–and the G-D of the Torah; and it had a “lower” spirituality that included all of the “MATERIAL” , “physical”, world and “MATTER”. These Gnostic Christians did not only place the TORAH in the lower sphere of spirituality but also went one step further to place the person that you refer to in your document in the UPPER sphere. So as they understood things, MOSHE and the Torah were considered to be a less perfect spiritual representation of this “savior” КТО was supposed to have originated from the upper sphere together with a more perfect “father” that was not supposed to be identified in any way with the G-d of the Torah. In short, Moshe’s receiving of the Torah although possessing spiritual value was seen as the somewhat spiritually incomplete “material” version of the more “true” and “perfect” “spiritual” version from beyond. To avoid misunderstanding, I am NOT suggesting that your discussion is an EXACT duplication of these early teachings although it is PRETTY CLOSE! However, it is true that most Christians are not aware of how aspects of these teachings ended up in the “new testament” scriptures that they consider to be ultimate “truth”.

Your solution to what you view as the material vs. spiritual dichotomy; a dichotomy that I must tell you does NOT exist in Judaism anyway and which would tend to make unnecessary that aspect of your discourse; is to present what from your standpoint must be the ultimate representation of this “higher” spirituality: this person which you believe to be “typed” or symbolized in the story that Jewish people refer to as the “AKEIDAH”. You might know it as the “binding of Isaac”. Unfortunately, this ultimate symbol is absolutely incompatible with Judaism and for reasons that are too numerous to mention. But here is a short list of points that you seriously MUST consider if you are going to discourse in a meaningful way in a TORAH JUDAISM forum:

IN JUDAISM:

1. The written Torah that Moshe received on Mt. Sinai IS from HEAVEN, the abode of G-d, the one and only Creator of Heaven and Earth and is, therefore, Divine Revelation. The Torah makes EXPLICITLY clear that we do NOT need ANYONE to bring it down from heavenly places for us. We already possess it.

2. Human Sacrifice throughout the recorded history of the bible is regarded as gross pagan IDOLATRY. Consequently, resorting to the Akeidah or Isaiah 52 and 53 to justify it is a misreading of the text as it was originally intended. What the Christian community fails to understand is that the person they worship is a COMPOSITE of more than TEN other Pagan Roman “Christ” figures—a “Designer” Christ of sorts–КТОse blood and flesh one WAS required to drink and eat, respectively; the rituals and doctrines of these pagan “saviors” were worked into the New Testament text largely to satisfy a Roman public that ALREADY had their OWN “saviors” many of them depicted hanging on crosses prior to the new testament time. Yet NO place in the original authentic biblical text do we find these practices–NOR did they exist AT FIRST in the original Christian community!

3. Atonement in the Torah system is not affected simply by presenting a sacrifice of ANY kind and the ULTIMATE way in the Torah teaching of acquiring atonement DOES NOT INVOLVE SACRIFICES WHATSOEVER!

4. Human beings are NOT in the “bondage” of the flesh because the flesh is NOT a prison in TORAH JUDAISM. The ancient Gnostics, much of КТОse doctrine found its way into the New Testament text, DID, however, believe that the flesh was bondage.

5. In Judaism, human beings are NOT born spiritually “corrupted” and the teaching of Genesis is NOT that the entire creation became hopelessly corrupted. For example, Bereishit Chapter 8 clearly says that G-d would NO MORE CURSE THE GROUND. Careful reading of the appropriate passages shows that the Creator RESTORED the ground so that it would once again bring forth the blessing and bounty from the Earth. If this is not the case then it will be hard to explain how the promised holy land of the Jewish people would require prayers and blessings of thanksgiving if what comes forth from it is hopelessly “corrupt”—I know that you stop short of actually going this far. But you still retain many aspects including a form of the Gnostic Dualism of earlier times.

6. The Jewish Messiah–or as you would say “Christ”–is NOT a gOd-mAn
born of a human female and a god. Notwithstanding the “soft-peddling” of many Jewish teachers in this generation, this is considered gross IDOLATRY in Judaism and according to the TORAH. This was, however, the clear teaching concerning ALL of the other PAGAN ROMAN “Christs” КТОse rituals, nativity, and doctrines predated the Early Christians of the first century; moreover, a careful reading of the history will show that AT FIRST such beliefs DID NOT exist in their community either.

I could of course go on pointing out the differences between the Jewish Torah view and Christianity, but I think the point is clear. Ignoring these differences just makes our dialogue hopelessly confusing. Our ОБЩИНЫ, as I have said before simply DO NOT share the same APPREHENSION of G-d, so it doesn’t make sense to engage in discourse in a way that assumes that they DO.

By: Not Important

Not Important — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:48:00 +0000

To the original debate, Adam and Eve were ‘with’ the Lord in Eden. The ‘corrupted’ material world was a side effect of sin and they were separated from the Lord’s intimate presence. (sin cannot inhabit the perfect Truth in eternity otherwise it is no more perfect) The Book of Adam and Eve declares the Lord had pity on them to hear their prayers when they vehemently cried out for helps. As recorded in Jubilees, Abram discerned, or was given understanding, to perceive the emptiness of his Dad’s idolatry in worshiping material objects. Turning away from materialism, he separated himself to the invisible Lord of all things. By respecting Abraham’s obedience to offer his only beloved son, the Lord answered his action with a substitute ram; a material illustration which can be interpreted spiritually as symbolism of Jesus’ ultimate Work, to give himself in the flesh as a substitute for the sinful flesh of others, that they might be released from the bondage of the flesh to find the invisible Lord. (order of operation transposed) Solomon’s prayer was respected and answered when he prayed for the invisible treasure of wisdom but the Lord gave him material blessings as well. A component of the spiritual act of loving another is giving a material deed or object; the Lord has given this marvelous world to humanity in the Spirit of Love? All or nothing logic seems to be an issue, when scriptural teaching (and life experiences) declares a mixture of material and spiritual (visible and invisible) issues. Hence, the Lord honors both material and spiritual dedication and judges to respect whatsoever righteousness may be to hear a plea of prayer. By a literal/material obedience to the Law in the Torah, the first witness of Jesus upon the earth cannot be accepted, but they will accept him upon his second appearance, nevertheless this will turn out to be a spiritual righteousness by holding to a material/literal obedience of the Law of Moses by faith? It is a mixture, not all one way or the other. The Lord of all things judges the mixture in a human mind, body and soul whether to answer or ignore their prayers. Degrees of pride and humility open the debate further, whereas pride generally indicates ingratitude and humility generally verifies thanksgiving for the Lord’s blessings? ‘Ye shall have equal and just weights upon your balances.’ -hope to have added to this debate worthwhile ideas, thanks

By: Jimmie

Jimmie — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 23:40:00 +0000

Once again, I must disagree with much of your statement although I understand the deep spiritual concern that I believe you are sincerely addressing. First of all, quite a large percentage of the world population, although not all, would concur with you that there is only one God. If we were to focus SOLELY upon this particular block of the world that believes in one God, we would still find many catastrophic conflicts that threaten the very existence of humanity. Obviously then it is not so much a problem that Judaism is advocating that others outside of its religious context cannot know God. The real and more complex issue is the reality of different APPREHENSIONS of God, Spirituality, and Religion that cross-cut innumerable groups around the world. Even among groups that share a single and central religious text, this problem exist; and as history shows us, this has been going on for quite a long time! One small example of this problem is the discourse in which you and I are presently engaged. Whether you are aware of it or not, you are advocating a very DISTINCTIVE RELIGIOUS/theological view О НАС the nature of God, the cosmos, the body, the soul, matter, and evil, all the while believing, erroneously, that you somehow stand OUTSIDE of the domain of RELIGION as a representative of a more pure UNIVERSAL SPIRITUALITY–a spirituality that, paradoxically, possesses the exclusive concepts and definitions of terms like “matter” that you have so carefully explained. Importantly, I am not saying that some kind of universal spirituality in some yet unrealized sense could not benefit humanity. But what I AM saying is that REALISTICALLY as opposed to IDEALISTICALLY there have been TWO outcomes in the history of humanity in an effort to bring О НАС such a universal spirituality: First, and according to our ancient sages this quest finally led to fragmentation of “spiritual” ideas–О НАС the cosmos and everything else–into world wide IDOLATRY together with the violence, destruction and death that have been associated with it. Then in a second attempt to realize a universal spirituality many millennium later, the ROMAN EMPIRE via its adopted form of UNIVERSAL RELIGION attempted to bring together under one spiritual umbrella the ENTIRE world which as you have pointed out resulted in oppression, destruction, and death on a world wide scale. It is therefore difficult for me to conceive of this universal spirituality, especially the very distinctive form of it that you are attempting to impose in a TORAH based forum, especially in view of the fact that the two of us cannot even agree on the theological conceptualization of terms like “matter”. And as I have previously indicated, the DOCTRINE that you are advancing concerning matter, the body, the soul, etc., is not only incompatible with Judaism, it is also not necessarily seen as spiritually universal among other philosophical and/or theological settings of a more secular/liberal nature. The most we can realistically anticipate at the present time is mutually respectful, meaningful, and genuine dialogue О НАС spiritual matters. In the present case the focus is TORAH-based spiritual learning in a forum focused exclusively on this approach to spirituality. So if I was a person unfamiliar with the Torah orientation toward spirituality, being respectful, I would seek to PARTICIPATE in this unique spiritual learning experience rather than try to impose something altogether different from outside. And of course this would not necessarily exclude questions in order to point out differences and similarities between the Torah view and others.

By: Cbiberstein

Cbiberstein — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:10:00 +0000

You are right, in saying that I don’t represent a Torah based spirituality. I’m not even Jewish. But wouldn’t you agree that there is only one God, and that God is for everyone, not just for one religion? How can there be a separate God for each religion? So, spirituality has to agree and provide a deeper understanding than religion. This is the problem with scriptures, (although they have had their use in providing the basic laws, but have gradually become adulterated in their purity over time, due to human influence). They have divided humanity rather than united humanity. Look at religious wars. There are certain basic truths which cross all religions. For example, non violence, peace, love, good wishes, purity, right thought, word and action, benevolence, self respect, respect for others, inner power, patience, cooperation, courage, mercy, compassion, humility, etc, etc. Spirituality actually unites people. Look at examples of Jews КТО were persecuted in history, but then there were always stories of amazing courageous people КТО stood up for them and hid them at the risk of losing their own lives. This was truly souls relating to one another as souls, over and above religious beliefs. Religions are associated with the body which belongs to a particular culture, family, occupation, gender, physical location etc. Spirituality says, I’m a spirit. I’m just a point of energy, like you my brother soul. Spirituality makes you a free bird. It helps you to see the bigger picture.

Matter was pure at first, when the world was new, but through the law of entropy has become impure. There was a time which is spoken О НАС in all mythologies when the world was a garden of flowers, when humans and nature were resplendent in their beauty, purity and cooperation. It was paradise. This was a world of complete non violence. Gradually, over time we lost our purity, and consequently, so did nature and all of matter. Right now we are living in a time of total irreligiousness and impurity. But this is okay. It is a time of change. This is the time when God is calling every human soul home to Him. This is ЗАЧЕМ there is greater interest in spirituality. Everyone is crying out for God. Even those КТО are in complete body consciousness are crying out for God, just a rebellious child cries out for the love of his parents in a dysfunctional way. We have become orphans, squabbling and fighting with one another, because we have forgotten our Father. But, the amazing thing is, He actually is already here. And it’s time to put our spiritual house in order (forgive everyone and let go of all grievances) and prepare for the homeward journey to God, into the light. He loves us more deeply than any human being can love us. He is without a body. We truly are also incorporeal souls. Our spiritual Father and Mother, (he doesn’t have a gender because He is incorporeal but has the energy of both a Father and a Mother), is holding open His arms to each and every child, (all souls are His children regardless of religion or behaviour).

By: poteaux

poteaux — Mon, 15 Nov 2010 04:46:00 +0000

Hi Carol,
I was going to leave this site to pursue others, but I just cannot get enough of a good thing it seems. I read your comment and also Jimmie’ reply and thought you may like to read something rabbi Adin Steinsaltz produced.
Go to, steinsaltz.org, Study with us >essays> What is the right way to make a cake? It is a good addition to what Jimmie says.
Thanks!

By: Jimmie

Jimmie — Sun, 14 Nov 2010 07:46:00 +0000

As I read this post, I could not help but wonder, given the original invitation that I received to participate in this ongoing discourse which made clear the intent to CELEBRATE and promote TORAH JEWISH LEARNING, exactly WHICH gOd you are talking О НАС? I ask this question with all due respect and for the following reasons: In the TORAH system of learning G-d is NOT a “detached” observer. In the TORAH teaching, we are NOT body OR soul but a COMPOSITE of the two. Therefore, according to the Torah, to be merely soul or to be merely body is to exist in a spiritually INCOMPLETE state. It is for this reason that one of the 13 principles of JUDAISM is belief in the resurrection. To go further, in the TORAH instruction, physical matter is NOT as you say “dirty”; for the Torah proclaims in very profound terms that everything that was made in the 6 days of creation WAS VERY GOOD–since physical matter was also created during the first six days, it cannot be viewed as something innately evil. The fact that we do not understand from a theological or philosophical standpoint how to reconcile this goodness with the bad and evil in the world does not change the clear statement of the Torah on this matter. In addition, the TORAH word is NOT as you say “calling us home”; on the contrary, it is urging us as partners with the Almighty to affect TIKKUN OLAM which refers to participating with the Creator in the REPAIR of the world; and it should be remembered that our original role as bequeathed to us by the Creator–according to the TORAH–was to be keepers of the EARTH, responsible as conservationist and preservers of its goodness. Note how in the story of Noah that he became a partner with Hashem in PRESERVING the life of the animals that share this planet with us. And whether you take the story as literal or not, the PRINCIPLE that it teaches regarding our role in the Earth is quite clear. In addition, while your discourse seems to advance a kind of gnostic-style DUALISM, a philosophical tenet that is completely incompatible with the Torah, the TORAH, in fact, teaches ECHAD, a ONENESS unlike any other oneness. As the prophet Zechariah proclaimed, “Hashem will be King over all the Earth; on that Day Hashem will be ONE and His NAME will be ONE. This clear teaching of the Prophet does not make it appear that the plan of the Creator is to become more “detached” from his Earth and its inhabitants; rather, it shows that his REAL plan is to affect the FINAL Tikkun Olam whereby the SPIRITUAL, invisible REALM and the PHYSICAL, Earthly, REALM–the “dirty” as you refer to it–will be brought together in a profoundly TORAH spiritual way. Finally, it is disturbing to me that in all of the “bliss”, “peace”, and “love”, that you speak О НАС, the one quality that MOST distinguishes the G-d of the TORAH is noticeably absent: “that you may remember and DO all My COMMANDMENTS and be HOLY”. Also: “LOVE Me and keep MY COMMANDMENTS. Anyone with even an elementary understanding of TORAH teaching is aware of the impossibility of TRULY knowing the CREATOR–another term that is noticeably ABSENT from your conception of gOd–without the understanding that HOLINESS–this includes your term purity–is ETERNALLY bound up with the COMMANDMENTS OF THE CREATOR and that these commandments are in fact the ETERNAL blueprint for ALL CREATION. Profoundly, from the TORAH standpoint, the word LOVE is expressed via a COVENANT relationship, the terms of that relationship being contained in a BINDING agreement–the COMMANDMENTS–that define the nature of our relationship with the Almighty. So, in general while your expressed views DO present a type of spirituality, it is not really TORAH based spirituality which is the
INTENT–another critically important word in the Torah–of the Global Jewish Learning program as I was led to believe anyway.

By: Cbiberstein

Cbiberstein — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:52:00 +0000

God listens as a loving and detached observer and also gives answers. I feel that to hear God’s answer requires silencing the mind of all the chatter. Become still and know that I am God. Another necessary prerequisite is to know КТО you are. You’re not a body, but a soul, a point of spiritual energy sitting in the centre of your head between the thalamus and the hypothalamus glands. This is the seat of the soul. You occupy a body but you are not that body. You are immortal, eternal and indestructible energy, with the innate qualities of peace, power, bliss and purity. You have become dirty while playing around in the dirty old world of matter. God is also a soul, the Supreme Soul, our Father, our Mother, our Teacher and our Guide. He is the purist being of all and He never is born through a womb. You certainly can connect with Him, in fact, it is the destiny of every human being to connect with God. But it is wrong action that clouds our ability to connect with God. God is like the sun and is always radiating light and power towards us, but we fail to receive due to negativity, peacelessness, fear, anger, guilt, ego and the belief that “I am a body”. To connect with God you have to adopt God’s qualities (which are your innate qualities of peace, purity, bliss truth and power) and begin to see the world as God sees it. God has so much love for every soul and sees us all as His children. He is calling us home at this time because He knows that this world is a mess and impure. All of the calamities, wars, environmental problems etc. are part of the purification process. They are totally natural and they are a result of the collective consciousness of humanity. The world has fallen into total degradation, but we can rise above that and become our highest, truest, most courageous spiritual self, knowing that whether or not my body is destroyed, I the soul am eternally pure, powerful and peaceful and I will exist forever. Even death is okay.
Now, (coming from a place of self respect and power) have a chit chat with God.

Carol

By: Stitches137811 Karen

Stitches137811 Karen — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:49:00 +0000

О НАС does GOD hear our prayers? Yes He does. and he knows when your thinking О НАС Him.He wants us to seek Him. Ive found to do this is quietly in my heart and in my thoughts,and try not to offend Him with things i watch and listion to, play him Love songs that people write for him.and when people hurt you seek Him for that He,s really Great at making you feel better. God Loves you talk to Him.

By: Jimmie

Jimmie — Sun, 07 Nov 2010 20:07:00 +0000

Concerning the essay of Yale S.Y. Landsberg, there are two INSURMOUNTABLE problems with it which I will briefly explain. First, and foremost, are the ETHICAL/MORAL problems which concern the TORAH teaching on this idea of imagining ANYTHING that we desire for ourselves as human beings–and by the way, this IS supposed to be a Global Day of JEWISH learning and of celebration of the TORAH and the TALMUD both of which are founded upon the cardinal principle that the Almighty does exist and that He created the Heavens and the Earth in Six Days and Rested on the Seventh Day.

For example, there once was a regime that IMAGINED that the world would be a better place IF the Jewish People could somehow be removed from it. This regime IMAGINED the ideological, political, cultural, and military logistics and strategy for making this IMAGINED idea become a REALITY; and the Nazi regime almost succeeded in exterminating the entire Jewish People. So I’m wondering where the MORAL/ETHICAL boundaries are for Landsberg’s somewhat morally warped utopia which logically and rationally is not really sustainable.

The second problem with Landsberg’s essay concerns its flight from RATIONALITY and LOGIC. For example, I could IMAGINE that human beings are NOT really living on a planet, a sphere, that is at this moment turning on its axis traveling from west to east at a speed of 1038 miles per hour, that the STABILITY of the Earth in its rotation and upon which ALL life on the Planet depends for survival does NOT require the gravitational pull of the Moon or for the Moon to remain at the PRECISE distance that it presently is from the earth. I could further IMAGINE that life on this planet can continue WITHOUT the Moon remaining in the precise location where it is. I could further IMAGINE that the information encoded in the DNA of every species and which sets the bio-genetic boundaries of that species is NOT what makes the species to become what they are. The Torah refers to this bio-genetic, DNA limit via the phrase “AFTER ITS KIND”. NOW, if I IMAGINED that NONE of these facts of reality were really true, would they somehow instantly become unreal just because it is in my mind and heart to IMAGINE that they are not real? Of course the answer is NO!

If I we were to continue to make increasingly more and more detailed studies of the physical realm, the socio-historical realm, and to the degree possible, the spiritual realm, in all their infinite complexity, we would eventually be FORCED to the rational-logical conclusion that the Creator DOES exist, that He is NOT mute, limited, or detached from His creation in ANY way, and that just as DNA is not my IMAGINATION, NEITHER IS HE!!!!